OTC: Kietzman Says Kansas State Is Just More Kansas Than Kansas / Thoughts?

“Kansas is so basketball centric that it creates problems. I’m not saying it creates problems, it’s problematic.”
Kevin Kietzman, 810 AM
GH: Sometimes Kevin Kietzman is difficult to translate. I think he is saying that Kansas being such a basketball-first school creates problems – even though he says he is not saying that while saying that. Read on.

“The things that become troublesome at Kansas I think is that their fan base is so big and so many people are Kansas fans that the basketball (overtakes everything) and there’s kind of fake energy put into football. Come on, most people don’t care (about Kansas football)!”
Kevin Kietzman, 810 AM
GH: Can having too big of a fan base in basketball be a negative? I am not sure how that is possible. Does KU have a ridiculously successful big-time nationally-recognized basketball program? Yes. Does KU have an embarrassingly underperforming football program? Yes. Does the success of the basketball team hinder the success of the football team? I guess you could try to make that argument but I don’t see how the two are even remotely related. Has Nebraska football’s success retarded the success of their basketball program? No. Just like KU, Nebraska has dumped plenty of money into their underperforming big-time sport with little success.

“I’ll tell you where K-State has an advantage over Kansas – it’s in its Kansas-ness. Kansas State is Kansas through and through. They are salt-of-the-earth people through and through.”
Kevin Kietzman, 810 AM
GH: Is Kansas State more Kansas than Kansas? Maybe we need Bill Clinton to define just was Kansas is. Is Kansas wheat farmers and rural towns? Or is Kansas Leawood, Overland Park, Wichita and Olathe? Is Kansas a farmer or is Kansas a person of business and leisure? Many people in Kansas making their living from agriculture live very good lives of leisure. There are some very plush golf courses in the western parts of Kansas and Nebraska. Just what is a Kansas person? Is Kietzman a salt-of-the-earth kind of guy? KK’s opinion of what a Kansan is appears to be about a century old. Hard work, family values and Midwest character are not limited to dirt farmers.

“If you’re a Kansas State fan – you went to Kansas State. … (The University of) Kansas is more cosmopolitan and has people that are from places that are nowhere near here. It’s difficult to create that same kind of feeling that you have in a place like Manhattan.”
Kevin Kietzman, 810 AM
GH: Kietzman is experiencing Kansas and Kansas State from an incredibly biased viewpoint. He is a Kansas State graduate. He has long shown his distaste for anything Jayhawks. That is understandable and acceptable. It’s just how it is with the Cats and the Hawks. But he doesn’t seem to understand that what he feels when he is in Manhattan is EXACTLY what every Jayhawk feels in Lawrence – or any Tiger in Columbia – that familial pride of belonging to something so special it permeates your very essence. Kansas State is a great place. But so are KU, MU and Wichita State.

“That shouldn’t be a negative, just because people didn’t go to that school. Even if the fan base doesn’t give a rip about football, to the people doing their jobs that shouldn’t matter.”
Danny Clinkscale, 810 AM
GH: Kansas has more fans outside the state of Kansas than Kansas State because they have been more successful on a national scale. Bill Snyder has built a national powerhouse football program – TWICE! – in Manhattan but he’s never won even played for a national championship. KU has been winning national titles in basketball since the ‘50s. Kansas State has Mitch Richmond and Darren Sproles – and no one loves Darren Sproles more than me – but those guys aren’t Wilt Chamberlain. Or Gale Sayers. Or Jim Ryan. Or Paul Pierce.

“There’s no explaining this. How do you explain the success (Kansas State) has had in so many sports?”
Kevin Kietzman, on the Wildcats Big 12 titles this year in football, basketball and baseball, 810 AM
GH: Kietzman is attempting to stick a knife into his KU listeners and twist it slowly. Yes, Kansas State has had an incredible year in sports. What they have accomplished cannot be overstated. But the snapshot of K-State’s recent sports success is not indicative of their history. The basketball team hadn’t won a conference title since 1977. The baseball team hadn’t won a conference crown since 1933. It took 69 years for K-State to win their second conference football title in 2003. Again, I applaud the Wildcats for their incredible year, but KK has gone off the deep end (once again) in overstating and misrepresenting the simple facts.

“I know this is crazy but I think it’s just as likely that Ned Yost gets an extension that he gets fired. … I think you could see Ned Yost get a year or two added onto his contract.”
Danny Parkins, 610 AM
GH: I thought Parkins was crazy when he made this statement last week – but I’m not so sure now that the Royals have sacrificed their two faceless hitting coaches instead. It looks like it might take two more weeks of losing to flush out the real problems — Dayton Moore and The Walking Ned.

“St. Louis is expected to be awarded the 2017 Southeastern Conference men’s basketball tournament, ESPN reported from the SEC spring meetings in Destin, Fla., citing an anonymous source. The Scottrade Center is expected to be the host venue. SEC commissioner Mike Slive told reporters Tuesday in Destin that the league hopes to eventually establish a primary site for the men’s tournament.”
Dave Matter, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
GH: It was just a little over a year ago or so when many were screaming how Mizzou’s departure to the SEC was a death knell to college basketball tournaments in the state of Missouri. Now it appears the Big 12, SEC, Missouri Valley and the NAIA will be bringing their fans to the Show-Me State every March. Move over Tobacco Road. It looks like college basketball lives here.

“Maybe when I wake up tomorrow, the Royals will be good.”
Kevin Scobee, @scobes15, Twitter
GH: I believe this is the Royals’ mission statement.

“I get the ball again Friday.”
Danny Duffy, @DannyDuffy805, on his start Friday with NW Arkansas, Twitter
GH: Not everything about the Royals has to be a bummer. Go get ‘em, Danny!

[email protected] and Twitter / @greghall24


About Greg Hall

Software guy who has been writing my Off The Couch column in KC newspapers, publications and websites since 1994. Has been bounced from some of the finest media establishments this side of State Line Road. Dad first and everything else second...and there are a lot of everything elses.
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84 Responses to OTC: Kietzman Says Kansas State Is Just More Kansas Than Kansas / Thoughts?

  1. Renton says:

    “I’ll tell you where K-State has an advantage over Kansas – it’s in its Kansas-ness. Kansas State is Kansas through and through. They are salt-of-the-earth people through and through.”

    Thanks for making me puke all over my desk.

    • sporty says:

      Truth hurts, huh?

    • Fred Flintstone says:

      Manhattan Kansas…. Drive west until you smell it, north until you step in it.

    • E.Jack Hewlett says:

      since when was “Kansas-ness” something to aspire to?

      As a KU alum, I take pride in the fact that my alma mater is somewhat of an anomaly in it’s own state.

  2. Jim says:

    Poor KK and his small-man syndrome. KSU was the perfect college for him. Both with chips on their shoulders screaming, “I am important! Why doesn’t anyone realize I am important?!”

  3. Mike says:

    Whaaaaat? KK, thy name is not Neilbonics, though you certainly can try. First test: Pronounce ‘Mixnutschki’.
    Also, celebrate the KSU year, KK, don’t degrade others because of it. As a KU grad, I look back fondly at ’08, the Orange Bowl/National Championship year. A thrill ride experienced by so very few, ever. And nearly impossible to duplicate.
    So, feel superior about your Kansas-ness, Cap’n Douche, because it’s fleeting. Tuck that little speech away, and bring it back in three years, and see it for the horseshit it is.

    • Zach says:

      I think Louisville duplicated it and then some this year. They won the Sugar Bowl, women went to Final Four, men won the National Championship, and baseball team won Conference.

      • Mike says:

        You misunderstood. The same school duplicating the same feat(s). Yes, Louisville did. Florida did around 06-07. But the odds of the same school replicating the same outcomes was my point.

  4. charlie says:

    Leave KK in his fantasy land. Ksu is not a national power in football. They have had two top level years in 20 years. Alabama, LSU. Ohio State are national powers. KU has a national brand in basketball and have non-alumni as fans. KSU does not. To quote Lloyd Bensten, “I know Alabama,LSU, Ohio State are national powers, they are friends of mine, you are not Alabama, LSU or Ohio State.”

  5. yuri says:

    KU’s national basketball program gives them a number of T-Shirt fans, particularly in the metro area (very similar to Nebraska football). I would love to have the same problem with my KSU football team. I can respect the person who is a KU fan first in Basketball and Football, but have little or no patience for the “I live and die KU basketball and am a huge (Notre Dame / Nebraska / Alabama / KSU) football fan”. We seem to have way too many of those folks in town.

  6. Scott says:

    I grew up in a rural Kansas community on a wheat and cattle farm. And loved KU all my life and ended up graduating from there. So, Kietzman, am I Kansan enough for you? K-State had a nice year in football, basketball, baseball. Good for them. KU had a nice year in basketball and track. I know KU will sustain their basketball success. Will K-State sustain theirs? Will K-State football ever be relevant again when Old Balls eventually goes away? The last time sure didn’t look very good. Will KU be able to rise back up in football? Time will tell, but I certainly like the direction they’re heading right now (granted Turner Gill made it impossible to do anything but go up).

  7. dp says:

    KK’s point is that K-State fans actually went to the school and have been fans through the ups AND the downs. KU, on the other hand, has a fan base built solely on their basketball success, particularly since the ’88 team won it. No KU fans care about any KU sport besides hoops. Greg saying that KU fans feel the same in Lawrence as K-State fans do in Manhattan is false as a large % of KU ‘fans’ have never been to Lawrence.

    • sporty says:

      Exactly! If ku had a few down basketball seasons, the “die-hard” jayhawk fan would disappear. Just like they do from March- November.

    • kcredsox says:

      I take it you never went to any K-State football games in the 80’s? There were very few fans in the stands then, so that pretty much destroys your statement that K-State have been fans through the ups AND the downs.

  8. The Smartman says:

    First things first. Were Kansas not located next to Missouri, particularly the proximity of Overland Park and Lawrence to Kansas City, it would be Wyoming……or Haiti, with no beaches.

    Once you get west of Topeka, Kansas is just white trash, tornado bait country full of religious ideologues that think the world is 2,000 years old. By 2050 Kansas will probably be down to one electoral vote. The population will be 40% Hispanic, 20% Black, 25% white trash and 15% other. Somebody has to operate the all you can eat Chinese Buffets.

    All that being said KK is cow chip tosser with little range and no velocity. His meaningless-ness is only overshadowed by his douchebagess-ness and less than average size penis…….according to his ex wife.

    • sporty says:

      Typical idiotic response. Yeah, Missouri is such an oasis. Biilboard, stripclub, meth heaven!

      • The Smartman says:

        Never said Missouri was an oasis and Kansas actually gets the nod on strip clubs. All those bible beaters need some place to go to release their tension.

  9. Kyle says:

    dp, that is a typical KSU response and 100% horseshit. So KSU fans support their teams better through ups and downs? How many empty seats were there at football games as recently as a few years ago? Upper level half empty under Prince. Tons of empty seats during B-Ball. KU football averaged about 40,000 fans per game last year for one of the worst teams in the country. Bottom line, none is better than other. If they win, they will come.

  10. TangoAlphaLima says:

    I get that KK is biased, but shouldn’t he at least try to check that bias at the door? His anti-KU stance lately has gone extreme. He used to simply give KU backhanded compliments and praise them so he could turn around and chastise them for not coming through. But lately, it’s been a full assault on anything Jayhawk. Maybe the Andrew Wiggins signing stings a little too much?

    • sporty says:

      Please, KK very rarely praises K-State. That is why he pisses off K-State people. The KU and MU homers on 810, while sometimes entertaining, make it difficult to listen to a whole segment.

    • JP says:

      Tango, you are correct. That Andrew Wiggins signing is stinging all of the purple life out of KK. He probably was secretly hoping that KU would have a down year, and instead will be ranked in the Top 5 next year. That dream just went out the door. Plus K State losing Rodriguez and Bruce Weber doing his usual job of recruiting equals back to the status quo regarding both basketball programs.

    • E.Jack Hewlett says:

      he’s also starting to realize how screwed KSU is being stuck with Bruce Almighty trying to compete with KU. And he wakes up in a cold sweat at 3AM after nightmares in which a Charlie Weis coached KU team walks all over the mildkittens.

      And Greg- on a relative basis, has KU football or NU basketball had more success historically? Quick, name an NU grad in the NBA hall of fame. There are exactly the same number as NU’s total NCAA tournament wins.

  11. 3GP says:

    “Kansas is so basketball centric that it creates problems. I’m not saying it creates problems, it’s problematic.”

    Are you sure KK said that? That has Herm Edwards written all over it. It is the very definition of a “Hermism”.

  12. gb says:

    K-state will always be little brother. What have their confernce championship teams done in post season? Shit themselves, that’s what. Basketball team loses to LaSalle and then the best returning player transfers out and recruiting class is a massive fail. Football team is in a once in a lifetime position to play a hugely overrated Notre Dame team for a national title but shits themselves getting blown out in Waco. Baseball, well, who gives a shit about college baseball?

    • sporty says:

      Typical KU response. The insecurity shown by so many KU fans that I know is hilarious. K-State is pretty much Big Brother in the state of Kansas, Manhattan is growing, enrollment is increasing at record rates every semester, while Ku has a decreasing enrollment the last 4 semesters. Ku football team is an embarrassment, the stadium looks like a high school field. KU has basketball, that’s it. Oh, I guess they do have womens track. Oh and a good Quiddatch team, I hear.

      • E.Jack Hewlett says:

        typical KSU fan response- resorting to enrollment smack. And saying KU has basketball, that’s it, is kind of like saying “Green Bay has the Packers, that’s it”.

  13. Gavin says:

    Where do people come up with this stuff? There are so many fallacies on parade here, it’s hard to know where to start. But let’s give it a shot.

    First, who says you need to go to a given school, or to have graduated from there to be a fan of that school? I graduated from KU, but what does that matter? I’m from Kansas. I was born here, I grew up here and it’s fairly likely that I’ll die here. That’s certainly true of a lot of people. Isn’t it enough that I pay taxes to support the place and that KU is a representative of my state (as are K-State, Wichita State, etc.) The fact is, MOST people don’t go to college and a significant number of fans of any school probably didn’t go there. They root for them for a multitude of reasons ranging from geography to religion (no way Notre Dame is as popular as it is without being such a huge success *AND* being a Roman Catholic school to having a family member who went to school there. Neither of my parents graduated from any college at all, but they were proud of me for having gone to KU and that was good enough reason for them to have allegiance to my school. I’m confident that there are plenty of K-State and Mizzou fans who fall in the same situation.

    Second, who the hell told anyone that KU doesn’t care about football? It’s strange that I only hear this parroted by K-State and Mizzou fans. I’ll put my KU “fan-ness” up against anyone’s and I can honestly say that I have never once heard any KU fan, not even at any of the secret meetings we don’t publicly talk about, you know, the ones where we have all the gay sex with underage boys, ever ONCE say, “you know, I really think it’s cool that we suck at football. I’m ine with it.” This is a myth perpetuated by fans of other schools and I can see why. It’s easy to kick our football team because it has been so consistently shitty and, when compared with the basketball team it’s even shittier. But look at all the money we’ve sunk into facilities upgrades. Look at what we’re about to do with the stadium. We fired Turner Gill (an admittedly awful hire) when we still owed him approximately $500 billion on his contract. These are not the actions of a school that doesn’t care about football. They’re the actions of a school that has not done well, at all, in football, I will grant that, but I am so tired of Kietzman and his trolling about how KU doesn’t care about football. We suck at football. It eats at our guts like an ulcer. All of that I will happily (well, not happily, but you get my meaning) admit. But trust me on this: we care about it. I only WISH we didn’t. It would be much easier if we didn’t. Hell, football is the only season ticket I can afford so I go to every football game and just go to basketball games when I can. Don’t tell me I don’t care when I show up and glumly watch the Jayhawks gag away leads week in and week out (assuming they ever have a lead in the first place).

    Finally, where are you meeting these people who claim to be KU basketball fans and Notre Dame/Nebraska/K-State/Ohio State/some other powerhouse football fans? I’ve never met one of them in my life. I will put it to you that KU doesn’t claim them and that they’re not fans of anyone. They’re bandwagin hoppers. Feel free to hate KU for all kinds of reasons, but not for those jagoffs. They don’t belong to us and we don’t want them. Don’t blame KU for them. Next time you see one of them, punch them in the dick.

    • kcredsox says:

      My son is actually a Cornhusker football fan, because of me. He is also a Jayhawk basketball fan because he grew up watching them win year after year and went to a basketball camp that a few of the players were at. Hopefully you won’t kick him in the dick, because my wife would like grandchildren.

  14. mike t. says:

    @gavin +1
    couldn’t have said it better myself.

  15. JP says:

    KK got what he wanted in this column. His comments are typical and idiotic. He is high on the hog over K State sports and I will applaud them for their success. They had a good year. But fame can be fleeting. After all, it wasn’t so long ago that Kansas and Missouri met in a game as the #2 and 3 ranked teams in the country (2007 to be exact). Where are those programs now? K State fans should count their blessings and enjoy this success. If history is any guide, this year is the abberation for Kansas State, not the norm.

    As for his comments about Kansasness. I can tell you that I have traveled all over the state in my job, and there are a fair number of KU fans west of Salina and in WIchita. He is living in a fantasy land if he thinks people are just jonesing to go to Manhattan, KS. If that were the case, then why is K State constantly in the lower half of BCS Schools when it comes to recruiting football. Everything clicked last year, and as long as Coach Bill Snyder is at K State, they will have a good program. When he leaves….Well see the Ron Prince era 2006-08.

    As for KK, it killed him to see all the positive coverage KU got over the Wiggins signing. Let him have his moment. In the end, that’s all it will be for KK: A MOMENT!!!

    • sporty says:

      Has being lower in recruiting hurt K-State? No. Being higher in recruiting helped Texas? No. K-State has had record enrollment for at least 4 semesters. Another record incoming Freshman class. I would say, things are going very well in Manhattan Kansas.

      • Red says:

        Snyder finished last in the B12 two years running when his recruiting ran out last time. He retired, let Prince recruit some guys (including Klein and the plan was to have Freeman also) and got Butler to send him the Brown brothers and Harper. This next year will be the first year he is without all those guys. It is very hard, even for an admittedly great coach like snyder, to win without good players. And Texas may be down as brown has gotten old, but lets not pretend they haven’t won several B12 championships plus a national championship in recent history.

  16. Kyle Rohde says:

    Agreed and am right there with Gavin. I love KU basketball. Going to AFH is one of the best sports experiences there is, whether you’re a fan or not. But at the same time, a big-time college football game is an even better experience, IMO, and that’s one of the reasons the 2007 season was so damn fun.

    Yeah, there’s lame KU fans that care only for basketball but there were plenty of lame KSU fans that cared only about football until you got good at basketball and baseball. That’s the nature of fandom in college sports unless you have a dynasty program like KU basketball, or your state is insane (like Nebraska where even Husker basketball averages like 12K a game).

    Gavin, I remember lots of people telling me they were KU basketball fans and KSU football fans when I first got to Lawrence in 2001. They were KU students, by the way, so I have no doubt there’s a lot of them out there.

    @sporty, you’re saying KU’s enrollment going down is a bad thing? I don’t know all the factors but I hope it’s a lot to do with increasing admissions standards. The previous rule that Fort Hays State and KU had the same standards was ridiculous and I’m glad they changed it, so KU can actually move upwards as an institution now. Letting more people in doesn’t mean things are improving, just that they’re trying to get more revenue and have bigger class sizes.

    Kietzman is brilliant. He was tired of talking about the Royals and this was a great way to get people fired up. He’s the message board troll of talk radio.

    • Gavin says:

      Wow. I believe you. But wow. It seems to me that you’re a KU fan or you’re not. I just don’t know how you can root for KU on one day and root against them on the next. It seems to me that’s not a fan. It’s just someone who is hopping on a bandwagon and if/when KU goes bad in hoops or K-State takes a nosedive in football they won’t be there through the bad times.

      Again, I’m old but if you aren’t suffering when your team sucks, I think you miss a big chunk of the joy when they finally succeed. I still think “fans” like that need to be dickpunched.

      And you beat me to it in terms of pointing out to Sporty that KU has raised admission standards and restricted admissions. When I went to college, any graduate of a Kansas high school could go to any Kansas Board of Regents school they wanted. And KU was twice as big as K-State. Now, with increased academic standards and tougher admissions for KU, KU still has five to six thousand more students than K-State. Gee, I wonder what that says about relative popularity of the two institutions?

      • Twy's Gibman says:

        you’re ignoring trends Gavin. I doubt KU’s chancellor is glad enrollment in Lawrence is dropping while it climbs in Manhattan. We will see in a few years!

        • Gavin says:

          You’re right, Twy. I’m sure that it never occurred to the Chancellor that if KU tightened it’s admission standards that all the students that would have formerly gone to KU would likely go somewhere else, K-State included. I’m sure she just thought that if KU wouldn’t take them, they’d all go to Vo-Tech and learn a trade or take jobs in some sort of unskilled labor force. No way that anyone could have foreseen that this would be a driver of increased enrollment at other schools when a prospective student’s first choice wasn’t open to him. How could she have been so stupid?

          And now she won’t be able to tout smaller class size or a better student-to-professor ratio to other prospective students or accrediting bodies either.

          This is a disaster.

          • Twy's Gibman says:

            yes – major universities are not big businesses wanting large numbers above all else. The NCAA also operates with the best interests of STUDENT-athletes at heart, also. I wished I lived in your world.

          • Gavin says:

            Apparently you think that every school is The University of Phoenix and that they just want warm bodies, flush with federal student aid. I wonder why schools like the University of Texas, the University of Florida, Cal-Berkeley, North Carolina-Chapel Hill so many others have tightened admissions standards in the last several years of that’s the case.

            One thing you said that I believe. You wish you lived in my world. But you can’t. Because of admission standards.

          • Twy's Gibman says:

            that’s hilarious – an academic scholarship and degree from Missouri says something different. So I’m assuming you attended Kansas after their academic standards were tightened?

          • Gavin says:

            Nope. But my grades were such that I would have been eligible for admission under the tighter standards. Not sure I see your point unless it’s that your reading comprehension isn’t all that good and you didn’t understand where I said “I’m old” and were unable to tie that to the fact that the admission standards are new.

            But then my scholarships were to KU.

          • Twy's Gibman says:

            yes, keep your head in the sand. Kansas is best in the state at the sport that matters very little compared with football, has dropped in enrollment every year since 2008 (before any tightened standards), and is breaking the athletic dept. bank to pay off Massa Self and a litany of failed football coaches. But everything’s good in L-town.

    • sporty says:

      BTW, admission standards don’t go into effect until 2014, I believe.

    • Mike says:

      Yes, I do see the brilliance in KK’s tacts on-air. But after awhile, doesn’t it detract from any integrity he has left to any one listener? It’s as if BTL ought to be renamed ‘Trolling’ on days like those. If it weren’t for Danny and Leabo, that’s all the show would be.
      By the way, I usually check out after Petro’s program, but Seitzer in-studio had me hanging with BTL. I hung with them a little longer enough to hear KK go apeshit for the Cerner guys to buy the team again, and then to put words in the Cerner guys’ mouths about declaring The K ‘in need of upgrades’ immediately, and having to build a new stadium. Kietzman’s REALLY trying to avoid talking about much, other than troll fodder.

  17. Captain Morgan says:

    What’s wrong with strip clubs and porn shops?

  18. Kyle says:

    sporty, how many KU football games did you attend last year? I was at the opener where over 46,000 were there, and yes, there were that many people in the stands. When the majority of the games you play are over by halftime, what is the reason to stay? I seem to remember a 40 point beatdown by OU at KSU in 2011 and the stadium was 70% empty in the 4th quarter. KU football fans care. They want a winner. The place was packed in 2007-2009. Keep beating your chest and kicking KU football while they are down. BS will soon be gone, and so will KSU’s winning ways. You are not that far removed from losing 4 of 5 to KU. Times will soon be changing.

    • sporty says:

      HAHA, you KU fans just keep counting the days until Bill Snyder is gone. You will still be crying when K-State continues to dominate. (Along with every other Big 12 team). Keep dreaming KU fans.

  19. MB says:

    ‘Why be great in one sport when you can be mediocre in all?’ – K-State

    • sporty says:

      3 Big 12 championships, 3 Big 12 COY awards, multiple facility upgrades or brand new facilities. Yeah, we K-State fans are pretty happy. But the KU envy and insecurity are funny.

  20. Red says:

    KState’s advantage over Kansas in football is one thing — Bill Snyder. When he isn’t there, they are worse than Kansas. And the players that both teams recruit are not salt of the earth Kansans for the most part. They are mostly Texas kids who the Texas schools did not have room for, or kids from other states who had grade issues forcing them to go to juco.

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